You have just entered room "Theia2002 Chat53."
Evilution3 has entered the room.
Chernobyll has entered the room.
Theia2002: We were talking about Fight Club vs. Pulp Fiction
Evilution3: fight club!!!
Chernobyll: i love both, but Pulp is levels above
Evilution3: eh...i didnt like it very much
Evilution3: certainly not as much as fight club
Chernobyll: FC has too many holes, and even die-hard fans have to make concessions about its script
Evilution3: holes?
Chernobyll: logcial holes
Evilution3: it takes place in the mind of a maniac
Evilution3: of course it has holes
Chernobyll: the gaping "who was driving the car"
Chernobyll: hole
Chernobyll: he wasn't a maniac
Theia2002: I think that was more of a dream sequence
Evilution3: exactly
Chernobyll: he was the everyman pushed to the limits
Evilution3: the whole thing....is it real or not
Evilution3: the whole movie is in his head
Chernobyll: i think it'd have to be
Chernobyll: the concept is cheapened if not grounded in reality
Chernobyll: anybody can dream about not caring about death
Evilution3: i think not being in reality frees it
Chernobyll: for the concept to work, he has to actually face it
Evilution3: or just the car could be a dream
Evilution3: or any one part
Chernobyll: i believe it to be in reality, just his slightly askew perception of it
Chernobyll: and marla was useless
Evilution3: marla is essential
Evilution3: she is jack
Evilution3: he looks at her...sees himself
Chernobyll: no... she's a paper jack... she's afraid of death
Evilution3: and he recoils....to create tyler...who he wants to be
Chernobyll: so many damn failed suicides
Chernobyll: she's too fake
Evilution3: how so?
Chernobyll: she's a tourist
Evilution3: but i think they are all tourists
Evilution3: we are all tourists
Chernobyll: she didn't live life like she was free
Chernobyll: she lived life like she wanted it to be over
Chernobyll: but she was too afraid to committ to that purpose
Evilution3: but isnt jack afraid to "live" too?
Evilution3: or "die"
Evilution3: afraid to do anything
Chernobyll: yeah, but that's what tyler is for
Chernobyll: he's the one who really lives
Chernobyll: and he brings jack along
Evilution3: but marla is the one who leads to tyler's creation
Evilution3: or finalizes it at least
Evilution3: he runs from her....when she wants him from the beginning
Evilution3: because he is the only one who remotely shares her outlook
Evilution3: or can understand her
Chernobyll: i think i'll have to watch that part again
Chernobyll: i never saw a tie there
Chernobyll: but you could be right there
Evilution3: he eventually accepts her as being right for him
Evilution3: even though he has forcefully blocked it out for the whole movie
Chernobyll: i dunno, everytime i've watched the movie, marla never seemed essential, it always seemed like the struggle between tyler and ednorton for their mutual fate
Chernobyll: i've watched the movie as the struggle between the two
Evilution3: but if they are the same person....doesnt the movie seem sorta pointless without any other characters?
Chernobyll: with tyler winning @ the end
Theia2002: Did he really though?
Chernobyll: he forced jack to look death in the eye and not blink
Chernobyll: its only dumbluck that he didn't die
Theia2002: But what was his ultimate goal?
Evilution3: no..he didnt want to die
Evilution3: he wins
Chernobyll: who?
Evilution3: tyler wanted to kill him
Evilution3: he wanted them to blow up in the building
Evilution3: but jack disarmed the bomb
Chernobyll: they weren't in a building that was gonna get blown up were they?
Theia2002: Yes
Evilution3: they are in the building jack disarms
Chernobyll: that's true, but tyler could have just as easily rearmed it
Chernobyll: and he didn't
Chernobyll: and jack lived
Theia2002: No, Jack killed tyler
Evilution3: but does it matter who he killed?
Theia2002: Well, Tyler's spirit and rebellion lives on
Evilution3: the point is....he is with marla
Evilution3: where he is supposed to be
Theia2002: Wait
Theia2002: You think that that is the ultimate goal? the denoument?
Evilution3: she has to have an essential role....unless the author and the director have no clue what they are doing
Evilution3: like he says at the beginning
Evilution3: it all has something to do with her
Theia2002: I thought differently
Evilution3: she is the catylyst
Theia2002: yes
Theia2002: but the way I see it
Evilution3: and she remains essential to the film
Evilution3: tyler's discovery of her brings her back into jacks life
Theia2002: well ... I think everybody in the end remains equally unessential
Evilution3: he can't get away from her....ie he cant get away from hi strue self
Theia2002: yes
Evilution3: not by punching it nor by fucking it nor by blowing it up
Evilution3: he cant get away from it
Theia2002: In the beginning
Theia2002: Jack represented the mindless working class living under a consumperistic and capitalistic society
Chernobyll: hmmm... this puts a whole new spin on how to watch this movie
Theia2002: Tyler represents the angst, hostility, and every negative attitude towards to that
Theia2002: rihgt?
Theia2002: Marla is there
Theia2002: to make Jack see himself clearly
Evilution3: more tyler represents the revulsion against it
Theia2002: and jack uses Tyler to hide behind his true identity
Evilution3: hide from his identity
Theia2002: yes
Chernobyll: tyler is his true self
Evilution3: i dont think so
Theia2002: You think Tyler is the real Jack?
Theia2002: I don't agree either
Evilution3: tyler is who he thinks he wants to be
Chernobyll: what else would he be?
Theia2002: jack is unhappy being where he is doing what he's doing
Evilution3: but tyler is, as jack says "too much"
Chernobyll: yeah and that self is inhibited by soiciety
Theia2002: Tyler is Jack's realization of why he's unhappy
Evilution3: he wants what tyler does not value
Evilution3: he wants friendship, camaderie
Evilution3: human interaction
Chernobyll: doesnt that make tyler antisocial?
Evilution3: he searches for it .... first by trying to be "complete"
Evilution3: owning all this useless shit
Evilution3: then he goes to support groups
Evilution3: then, sick of society
Evilution3: he tries being antisocial
Evilution3: but that doesnt work either
Chernobyll: but tyler isn't antisocial
Chernobyll: he's anti-pop-society
Evilution3: he's anti-social
Chernobyll: everybody loves the mother fucker
Evilution3: he loves noone
Chernobyll: he's a leader of men
Evilution3: he brainwashes them
Evilution3: into thinking he is a good thing
Evilution3: but he isnt
Evilution3: jack sees this
Evilution3: when bob dies
Chernobyll: ok
Evilution3: and the audience sees it when they become tylers slaves
Evilution3: as opposed to white collar slaves
Chernobyll: blue collar slaves
Evilution3: tyler's reality is empty too
Evilution3: like consumerism
Evilution3: even like support groups
Evilution3: it still lacks the human connection that marla provides
Chernobyll: ok
Evilution3: jack wants not to be tyler so much as to be tylers friend
Evilution3: its always me and tyler, me and tyler
Chernobyll: i can see the tyler being the balance to jack
Evilution3: he's hurt when tyler abandons him
Chernobyll: but i still can't see the marla thing
Chernobyll: well yeah, that doesn't imply friendship
Chernobyll: by your own argument jack wants to be like a male marla
Evilution3: he wants to feel needed
Evilution3: he is a male marla
Evilution3: that is his essentuial nature
Evilution3: underneath it all
Chernobyll: but he compares his relationship to marla with his relationship to tyler
Evilution3: how so?
Chernobyll: wait, no, i'll have to watch the scene again
Chernobyll: but marla brings up the relatiionhsip between the 3 of them and jack feigns to be really put off by the comparison
Evilution3: he compares his relationship to tyler
Evilution3: with marla's relationship to tyler
Chernobyll: what i'm saying is... if marla was supposed to be the model that jack wants to achieve, that's pretty sad
Evilution3: its nto an aspiration so much as coming to terms with what he is
Chernobyll: because she's a clutchy, needy, wannabe suidicide "victim"
Evilution3: and what is tyler
Evilution3: an unrealistic goal
Chernobyll: ok, i've conceded that tyler was not the end goal
Evilution3: an anti "rock star, movie god"
Chernobyll: i see it more as a balance tween tyler and jack
Chernobyll: but not to become marla
Evilution3: i dont see jack becoming anything, but rather having a catharsis and realizing what he is
Chernobyll: she is just too weak a character
Evilution3: but still not so weak she needs to create an alterego
Chernobyll: she hasn't been pushed down that road
Chernobyll: doesn't mean she's not capable
Chernobyll: if this movie is about finding your true self
Evilution3: that seems much weaker....she becomes open to accepting herself
Evilution3: yes
Evilution3: gotta go
Evilution3: wat5ch it again...on dvd if you can
Evilution3: hearing fincher's commentary is very eye-opening
Evilution3: nice talking to you
Chernobyll: later
Evilution3: farewell
Evilution3 has left the room.
Chernobyll has left the room.
